The Rebellion of Thought Blog is an idea that sprang forth from the film by the Brothers Williamson. It is designed to be a critical look at the role of the Church in a post-modern world.
We do not claim to have all the answers... but we are brave enough to ask the questions.
Saturday, June 17, 2006
Going to Church by Staying at Home
A recent Washington Post article by staff writers Michael Alison Chandler and Arianne Aryanpur...
I just finished watching Rebellion of Thought and I have a few questions. It was said that the Gospel doesn't need to be preached anymore or only, but it needs to be lived out. My first question is, what is the Gospel? And my seconded is what is living it out?
I was struck by the fact that the young girl you spoke with was later murdered. The girl now stands before God and presumably in her own righteousness. What I don't understand is, there was all this talk about loving our neighbor and staying home from church to talk with our neighbor about what bugs him but no talk as to what ultimately our neighbor needs to hear. To feed the body or to engage the heart doesn't answer the ultimate problem with man. Mans sin and Gods judgment of man for his sin. The Gospel is what our neighbors need. Our neighbors have a deadly sickness. And like you said we all die but those without Christ will be judged apart from His imparted righteousness and sent to hell. How can anything else be more important then the Gospel that can save them from the wrath of God? We as Christians have the "story", the good news. We have been rescued from slavery to sin. How can this message be kept silent? We need a revolution but not one of transparency or one where we talk with no answers. We need a revolution where the pure Gospel is preached. You said all churches do is preach the Gospel. This is not true. Most churches don't even know what the Gospel is. I assume you believe that the ultimate expression we can have for our neighbor is to tell them of salvation. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Maybe the church is in such bad shape because the Gospel has been assumed and where the Gospel is assumed it is lost.
I will save any more comments til there is a response. Please help me to understand where you are coming from and heading.
First, let me say thanks for watching Rebellion of Thought and thanks for joining the dialogue here at the blog.
Brad and I don't claim to have the answers but we do feel that it's important for people to wrestle with the ideas that spring forth from the movie.
In the film we don't say that the gospel no longer needs to be preached, but we do say that non-believers need to see the gospel instead of merely hear the gospel.
Simply put, the gospel is "good news".
The Online Etymology Dictionary connects the gospel with godspel from god "good" + spel "story, message".
What is the "good story" or "message" that we have? It's that Christ took our place on the cross. He died so that we may live.
So the challenge we pose in the film is how do you live the good news in tangible, meaningful ways and not just preach it?
Let's say it's pitch black and people are stumbling around and tripping over each other. I can gather them all together on a regular basis and tell them how we need to turn our lights on. I can tell them about the wonders of electricity. I can tell them about how power is generated and how light bulbs work and how magnificent it all is... OR I can not say a word and go flip the switch and turn the light on! Which is more helpful to what the people need?
An understanding of how the light works may come in handy at some point, but the need is light, not a sermon about the light.
Wow...my reply comes only 3 months later. Can anyone say procrastinator? Thank you for your swift and thoughtful response.
I'd like to start with the idea of "living" the Gospel. Although I think I know what you mean, I must say this not possible for two reasons. First and foremost, the Gospel is a message, story, to be told, received and believed.It is a proclamation. For example, when WW 2 ended the newspapers printed it on the cover. This was "good news". The people who read this message had nothing to do but hear and believe the message. They didn't need to fight the war; it was done on their behalf. This is good news to be heard and believed. There's nothing to live. Stories are meant to be told!
Now you may have meant by your suggestion of "living" the Gospel that we are to be more like Christ. This also is impossible. It is true that we, believers that is, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and that by this we are "growing" in Christ likeness, but we have not understood what that means if we believe we are even 10 billion miles away from Christ likeness. God is holy, and that means other. His goodness is a holy goodness; His love is a holy love, etc. This means it is not like our goodness or love. My point is that if one's salvation is dependent upon anothers ability or actually reflecting Christ, then the World is lost. Christians must by necessity be different then the world, but we are not even close to Christ image. We are sanctified sinners!
Now, if you meant by living the Gospel that we ought to be transparent, honest, etc. I would agree, but this is not the Gospel. Possibly this is an affect of the Gospel, but it isn’t the actual Gospel. This is not splitting hairs. This is a critical distinction. Like I said Christians by necessity are different and this difference silences the mouth of the sinner and causes some to give glory to God, but again, none of this is the actual Gospel. The message of Gods wrath upon us, our sentence to hell, His sending of Christ to satisfy His justice, mercy, and grace; this is the Gospel.
You also mentioned that what if we were in the dark, would we tell people about the light, etc. or just turn on the light. As far as the idea goes, it’s fine, but it isn’t an accurate analogy. People aren’t just living in the dark; they are blind and LOVE the dark. Our natural state isn’t one of desire for God; it is one of hatred for Him. Also, we have no power to heal this blindness or turn on the light. This is a miracle, and we cannot do miracles. The power of God unto salvation is the Gospel. It is the miracle.
To provide for my neighbors physical needs without providing for their eternal needs isn’t loving, it is cowardice, shortsighted, just plan cruel. Don’t get me wrong, these things should be done, but as my constant refrain has been, these things are not the Gospel and therefore secondary.
You said we don’t need a sermon about the light, but we need the light. The Bible says otherwise. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. How shall they hear if one doesn’t preach?
Thank you again for your time. I do believe it is of great value to wrestle with these questions, but we must come to conclusions where the Bible has and not just talk. I to look around at the church and wonder if this is what ought to be, but the reality is that the problem with the church “ultimately” isn’t ungodliness, it is the correct understanding of the Gospel, for it is the Gospel rightly believed that generates true holy living. The problem is we have lost the Gospel and therefore lost our purpose. For how can we glorify God, enjoy Him, and overflow with that joy by sharing it, if we haven’t known what He has done for us in Christ?
Wow...my reply comes only 3 months later. Can anyone say procrastinator? Thank you for your swift and thoughtful response.
I'd like to start with the idea of "living" the Gospel. Although I think I know what you mean, I must say this not possible for two reasons. First and foremost, the Gospel is a message, story, to be told, received and believed.It is a proclamation. For example, when WW 2 ended the newspapers printed it on the cover. This was "good news". The people who read this message had nothing to do but hear and believe the message. They didn't need to fight the war; it was done on their behalf. This is good news to be heard and believed. There's nothing to live. Stories are meant to be told!
Now you may have meant by your suggestion of "living" the Gospel that we are to be more like Christ. This also is impossible. It is true that we, believers that is, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and that by this we are "growing" in Christ likeness, but we have not understood what that means if we believe we are even 10 billion miles away from Christ likeness. God is holy, and that means other. His goodness is a holy goodness; His love is a holy love, etc. This means it is not like our goodness or love. My point is that if one's salvation is dependent upon anothers ability or actually reflecting Christ, then the World is lost. Christians must by necessity be different then the world, but we are not even close to Christ image. We are sanctified sinners!
Now, if you meant by living the Gospel that we ought to be transparent, honest, etc. I would agree, but this is not the Gospel. Possibly this is an affect of the Gospel, but it isn’t the actual Gospel. This is not splitting hairs. This is a critical distinction. Like I said Christians by necessity are different and this difference silences the mouth of the sinner and causes some to give glory to God, but again, none of this is the actual Gospel. The message of Gods wrath upon us, our sentence to hell, His sending of Christ to satisfy His justice, mercy, and grace; this is the Gospel.
You also mentioned that what if we were in the dark, would we tell people about the light, etc. or just turn on the light. As far as the idea goes, it’s fine, but it isn’t an accurate analogy. People aren’t just living in the dark; they are blind and LOVE the dark. Our natural state isn’t one of desire for God; it is one of hatred for Him. Also, we have no power to heal this blindness or turn on the light. This is a miracle, and we cannot do miracles. The power of God unto salvation is the Gospel. It is the miracle.
To provide for my neighbors physical needs without providing for their eternal needs isn’t loving, it is cowardice, shortsighted, just plan cruel. Don’t get me wrong, these things should be done, but as my constant refrain has been, these things are not the Gospel and therefore secondary.
You said we don’t need a sermon about the light, but we need the light. The Bible says otherwise. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. How shall they hear if one doesn’t preach?
Thank you again for your time. I do believe it is of great value to wrestle with these questions, but we must come to conclusions where the Bible has and not just talk. I to look around at the church and wonder if this is what ought to be, but the reality is that the problem with the church “ultimately” isn’t ungodliness, it is the correct understanding of the Gospel, for it is the Gospel rightly believed that generates true holy living. The problem is we have lost the Gospel and therefore lost our purpose. For how can we glorify God, enjoy Him, and overflow with that joy by sharing it, if we haven’t known what He has done for us in Christ?
6 comments:
I just finished watching Rebellion of Thought and I have a few questions. It was said that the Gospel doesn't need to be preached anymore or only, but it needs to be lived out. My first question is, what is the Gospel? And my seconded is what is living it out?
I was struck by the fact that the young girl you spoke with was later murdered. The girl now stands before God and presumably in her own righteousness. What I don't understand is, there was all this talk about loving our neighbor and staying home from church to talk with our neighbor about what bugs him but no talk as to what ultimately our neighbor needs to hear. To feed the body or to engage the heart doesn't answer the ultimate problem with man. Mans sin and Gods judgment of man for his sin. The Gospel is what our neighbors need. Our neighbors have a deadly sickness. And like you said we all die but those without Christ will be judged apart from His imparted righteousness and sent to hell. How can anything else be more important then the Gospel that can save them from the wrath of God? We as Christians have the "story", the good news. We have been rescued from slavery to sin. How can this message be kept silent? We need a revolution but not one of transparency or one where we talk with no answers. We need a revolution where the pure Gospel is preached. You said all churches do is preach the Gospel. This is not true. Most churches don't even know what the Gospel is. I assume you believe that the ultimate expression we can have for our neighbor is to tell them of salvation. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Maybe the church is in such bad shape because the Gospel has been assumed and where the Gospel is assumed it is lost.
I will save any more comments til there is a response. Please help me to understand where you are coming from and heading.
Phil -
First, let me say thanks for watching Rebellion of Thought and thanks for joining the dialogue here at the blog.
Brad and I don't claim to have the answers but we do feel that it's important for people to wrestle with the ideas that spring forth from the movie.
In the film we don't say that the gospel no longer needs to be preached, but we do say that non-believers need to see the gospel instead of merely hear the gospel.
Simply put, the gospel is "good news".
The Online Etymology Dictionary connects the gospel with godspel from god "good" + spel "story, message".
What is the "good story" or "message" that we have? It's that Christ took our place on the cross. He died so that we may live.
So the challenge we pose in the film is how do you live the good news in tangible, meaningful ways and not just preach it?
Let's say it's pitch black and people are stumbling around and tripping over each other. I can gather them all together on a regular basis and tell them how we need to turn our lights on. I can tell them about the wonders of electricity. I can tell them about how power is generated and how light bulbs work and how magnificent it all is... OR I can not say a word and go flip the switch and turn the light on! Which is more helpful to what the people need?
An understanding of how the light works may come in handy at some point, but the need is light, not a sermon about the light.
So I ask, how do we live the good story?
Wow...my reply comes only 3 months later. Can anyone say procrastinator? Thank you for your swift and thoughtful response.
I'd like to start with the idea of "living" the Gospel. Although I think I know what you mean, I must say this not possible for two reasons. First and foremost, the Gospel is a message, story, to be told, received and believed.It is a proclamation. For example, when WW 2 ended the newspapers printed it on the cover. This was "good news". The people who read this message had nothing to do but hear and believe the message. They didn't need to fight the war; it was done on their behalf. This is good news to be heard and believed. There's nothing to live. Stories are meant to be told!
Now you may have meant by your suggestion of "living" the Gospel that we are to be more like Christ. This also is impossible. It is true that we, believers that is, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and that by this we are "growing" in Christ likeness, but we have not understood what that means if we believe we are even 10 billion miles away from Christ likeness. God is holy, and that means other. His goodness is a holy goodness; His love is a holy love, etc. This means it is not like our goodness or love. My point is that if one's salvation is dependent upon anothers ability or actually reflecting Christ, then the World is lost. Christians must by necessity be different then the world, but we are not even close to Christ image. We are sanctified sinners!
Now, if you meant by living the Gospel that we ought to be transparent, honest, etc. I would agree, but this is not the Gospel. Possibly this is an affect of the Gospel, but it isn’t the actual Gospel. This is not splitting hairs. This is a critical distinction. Like I said Christians by necessity are different and this difference silences the mouth of the sinner and causes some to give glory to God, but again, none of this is the actual Gospel. The message of Gods wrath upon us, our sentence to hell, His sending of Christ to satisfy His justice, mercy, and grace; this is the Gospel.
You also mentioned that what if we were in the dark, would we tell people about the light, etc. or just turn on the light. As far as the idea goes, it’s fine, but it isn’t an accurate analogy. People aren’t just living in the dark; they are blind and LOVE the dark. Our natural state isn’t one of desire for God; it is one of hatred for Him. Also, we have no power to heal this blindness or turn on the light. This is a miracle, and we cannot do miracles. The power of God unto salvation is the Gospel. It is the miracle.
To provide for my neighbors physical needs without providing for their eternal needs isn’t loving, it is cowardice, shortsighted, just plan cruel. Don’t get me wrong, these things should be done, but as my constant refrain has been, these things are not the Gospel and therefore secondary.
You said we don’t need a sermon about the light, but we need the light. The Bible says otherwise. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. How shall they hear if one doesn’t preach?
Thank you again for your time. I do believe it is of great value to wrestle with these questions, but we must come to conclusions where the Bible has and not just talk. I to look around at the church and wonder if this is what ought to be, but the reality is that the problem with the church “ultimately” isn’t ungodliness, it is the correct understanding of the Gospel, for it is the Gospel rightly believed that generates true holy living. The problem is we have lost the Gospel and therefore lost our purpose. For how can we glorify God, enjoy Him, and overflow with that joy by sharing it, if we haven’t known what He has done for us in Christ?
Tell the story.
Wow...my reply comes only 3 months later. Can anyone say procrastinator? Thank you for your swift and thoughtful response.
I'd like to start with the idea of "living" the Gospel. Although I think I know what you mean, I must say this not possible for two reasons. First and foremost, the Gospel is a message, story, to be told, received and believed.It is a proclamation. For example, when WW 2 ended the newspapers printed it on the cover. This was "good news". The people who read this message had nothing to do but hear and believe the message. They didn't need to fight the war; it was done on their behalf. This is good news to be heard and believed. There's nothing to live. Stories are meant to be told!
Now you may have meant by your suggestion of "living" the Gospel that we are to be more like Christ. This also is impossible. It is true that we, believers that is, are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and that by this we are "growing" in Christ likeness, but we have not understood what that means if we believe we are even 10 billion miles away from Christ likeness. God is holy, and that means other. His goodness is a holy goodness; His love is a holy love, etc. This means it is not like our goodness or love. My point is that if one's salvation is dependent upon anothers ability or actually reflecting Christ, then the World is lost. Christians must by necessity be different then the world, but we are not even close to Christ image. We are sanctified sinners!
Now, if you meant by living the Gospel that we ought to be transparent, honest, etc. I would agree, but this is not the Gospel. Possibly this is an affect of the Gospel, but it isn’t the actual Gospel. This is not splitting hairs. This is a critical distinction. Like I said Christians by necessity are different and this difference silences the mouth of the sinner and causes some to give glory to God, but again, none of this is the actual Gospel. The message of Gods wrath upon us, our sentence to hell, His sending of Christ to satisfy His justice, mercy, and grace; this is the Gospel.
You also mentioned that what if we were in the dark, would we tell people about the light, etc. or just turn on the light. As far as the idea goes, it’s fine, but it isn’t an accurate analogy. People aren’t just living in the dark; they are blind and LOVE the dark. Our natural state isn’t one of desire for God; it is one of hatred for Him. Also, we have no power to heal this blindness or turn on the light. This is a miracle, and we cannot do miracles. The power of God unto salvation is the Gospel. It is the miracle.
To provide for my neighbors physical needs without providing for their eternal needs isn’t loving, it is cowardice, shortsighted, just plan cruel. Don’t get me wrong, these things should be done, but as my constant refrain has been, these things are not the Gospel and therefore secondary.
You said we don’t need a sermon about the light, but we need the light. The Bible says otherwise. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. How shall they hear if one doesn’t preach?
Thank you again for your time. I do believe it is of great value to wrestle with these questions, but we must come to conclusions where the Bible has and not just talk. I to look around at the church and wonder if this is what ought to be, but the reality is that the problem with the church “ultimately” isn’t ungodliness, it is the correct understanding of the Gospel, for it is the Gospel rightly believed that generates true holy living. The problem is we have lost the Gospel and therefore lost our purpose. For how can we glorify God, enjoy Him, and overflow with that joy by sharing it, if we haven’t known what He has done for us in Christ?
Tell the story.
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